Strong Leaders Serve with Teri Schmidt

195. What Leaders Can Learn from Sports Reporting with Jen Mueller

• Teri Schmidt

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We’ve all heard the advice to “be an effective communicator.” But what does that really mean beyond the buzzword? In this episode, veteran sports reporter and Talk Sporty to Me founder Jen Mueller shares lessons from 25 years on the sidelines, where conversations happen under pressure, in the heat of wins and losses. Together, we explore how those lessons translate into clearer, more courageous communication for business leaders. 

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What does it mean to really be an effective communicator? We hear that phrase all the time, but in this episode, we go beneath the buzzwords with Jen Mueller, a veteran SportsLine reporter for the Seattle Seahawks, longtime member of the Seattle Mariners Broadcast Team and founder of Talk Sporty to me, with over 25 years of experience covering the N-F-L-N-B-A-M-L-B-N-H-L and more, Jen brings unique insights from locker rooms where conversations happen just minutes after big wins or crushing losses. She shows us how sports culture normalizes tough conversations and what leaders can learn to bring that same clarity, accountability, and trust to their teams. I'm Terry Schmidt, executive and leadership coach at Strong Leaders Serve, where we partner with organizations to prepare leaders for the everyday stretch moments of leadership, the promotion that makes old habits obsolete, the reorg that shakes trust, or the high stakes project where influence matters more than authority. And this is the Strong Leaders Serve podcast.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Well, hi

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Jen.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

to the Strong Leader Serve Podcast. I'm really looking forward to,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to our conversation

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

oh, this is gonna be a fun one. Terry. I have been, I am this one for a while on my calendar. Well,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

excellent, And I know you're usually

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

usually on the other side

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

side of the microphone

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

so I'm

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to have you

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

that experience

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and that expertise. And especially as we talk about what it means to be an effective communicator.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

But I'd love to start with your story because even though that is

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

a

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

you know, effective

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

communicator,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

sound symbol, it could be actually incredibly

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

complex. I

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

you

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

you've

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

25 years

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

years in sports,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

where communication

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

pressure isn't

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

isn't optional.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

right. So I'd love to hear.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

about

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

your journey and

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

of the things that you've learned along the way.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

way.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Well, as you mentioned, I've spent 25 years in sports broadcasting. I've done both television and radio. I have been behind the scenes as a producer and I have been in front of the cameras and with a microphone actually delivering the stories and the post game interviews. It's been a really fun ride. First got into sports broadcasting. You know, there weren't that many women who were doing this, and so the advice we were given. Was to just be quiet. The advice we were given was to not draw attention to ourselves to make sure that nobody knew that we were the woman in the room. And I gotta be honest, when you walk into a locker room full of men, it's pretty hard to figure out or hide the fact that you were the only woman in there. But I say that because, you know, I think at the time it was, it was well-intentioned advice. Nobody really knew what to do. So what I was craving was the actual practical advice that would help me do my job better. Instead, I kept hearing, Hey, just put yourself in the corner and try to not rock the boat.'cause that's what's gonna be easiest for everybody. When we think about effective communication, there's so many things that we either keep. Hidden intentionally or otherwise, or that we fail to say that creates these huge barriers and it's as simple as not finishing the thought we have in our head. And I don't have the luxury of doing that because I don't get to go back and ask for that interview a second or a third time. It has to be done right now on deadline in a very short amount of time.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Right.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Right. I think about your experience and I can't imagine because I,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

I,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I watch a lot of hockey. So I'm a Dallas Star fan, and I, I can't imagine going in those locker rooms after a game six,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

or a

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

seven off in the playoffs, or, you know, on the other side. I, I can't imagine going

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

in

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

win.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Of course. I'm sure that's a little bit more fun, but. Most

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Would

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

avo

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

those conversations that you think of being

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

equivalent

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

the workplace. Those are high emotions.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

you're

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Probably think

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

let's just

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

that settle a little bit before we have that conversation. So hear about what about courage that takes.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to walk into that discomfort instead of away from it.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Well, there's a few things that I make sure that I do personally before I walk into the room, and then there's a few things that sports actually does to make this easier. So from the sports point of view, when you go to a hockey game, every single person in that arena knows what the objective is. The objective is to win the game, and you are gonna do that by scoring more goals than the other team, and that seems like it is overly simplified and really obvious. But too often in business, we are not as clear as we need to be on what that objective is, whether that is what high performance looks like, whether that is what success looks like, a deadline looks like. There's all sorts of things that we assume people can either read our mind or already on the same page. Sports doesn't do that. Sports is very, very clear. So when I already have the expectation set that you are going in to win the game, when you come up short. Everybody knows there's gonna be a conversation about why you came up short and what went wrong in this whole process. So sports takes care of that part. There's the expectation already that I'm gonna go in there. When I do go in there, there's a couple of things I have to remember. Number one, they just wanna get it over with. They already know what happened. They already know how they screwed up, how they came up short, how they failed to execute on what they practiced all week long, or what they've practiced for the last couple of days. They already know. You cannot ease your way into that conversation. You don't have to be confrontational, and you don't have to be rude, but you do just need to come out and say, what happened on that power play? What happened? When you couldn't make the catch in the end zone, right. Just tell me your side of the story. Okay? And then number two, I need to take myself out of the equation. There is a lot of emotion in a locker room after any outcome. But it's not directed at me. If I can just recognize the human being that's standing in front of me and understand that I know how it feels to disappoint somebody, or to come up short or to not perform the way that I wanted to just sit and let them have that emotion, which means their answer might be short, their answer might seem abrupt to people listening on the other side, it might sound rude, but I already had a win because you chose to answer my question. So if you reframe what's actually happening in that moment and take your own ego and emotion out of it, now I can let you have the space that you need while answering something that, quite honestly, you probably don't wanna talk about at the end of your workday. Yeah,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Yeah. Yeah,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

yeah. There are two thread in there that I'd love to dig into a little bit further. First, you talked about, you know, your work has kind of done for you in terms of the expectations.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

setting. You either met it or you

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

And I think that is, you know, a challenge at the beginning of a difficult conversation sometimes for leaders if that expectation of having,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

been set

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

because then they don't have something

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to. Cleanly

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

back.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

And so that's almost a

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

a

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

whole other conversation or a whole another part of that conversation that they have

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to have on

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

of this,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

discomfort riddled

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Yeah, they have to have point because someone need that performance that they

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

they didn't

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

can Yeah. Share clearly. Yeah. Yeah. And so when we think about tough conversations, if we focus on the fundamentals of effective communication, those tough conversations get easier. So what I advise leaders to do, and actually everybody in every interaction, use the ETA formula. So that's what I started using in locker rooms to make sure that I got exactly what I needed from interviews. And I know ETA normally stands for estimated time of arrival. It's very convenient. So now every time you get into your car, you will think about this as well. But for me it stands for expectation, timeline, and action item. So if I'm asking you for an interview, I'm not just gonna say, do you have time for an interview today? That's one way to ask the question would, which would be the equivalent of a leader saying, can you get this done? Okay, now done. There's a whole bunch of different ways we can define done, and when I think about what we actually need to communicate effectively, I have to spell it out for you. Expectation, timeline, and action item. When I'm asking for an interview, do you have time to answer two questions about this weekend's matchup. I can find you after practice.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Everybody can be in agreement on what that looks like. And if you don't agree to any part of that equation, we can level set. Oh, after practice today doesn't work, but after practice tomorrow does. Great. Now we've agreed to that. If you don't show up for that interview, I've got a much easier entry point back to say, Hey, what happened? We agreed that this was gonna take place and here's what was gonna happen. Same thing if we're talking about a business situation, right? Can you get the job done? How about if we add some ETA on top of this, right? Can you pull all of the financials from Q1 and Q2 and get those to me by four o'clock on Friday? You're gonna say yes or no. We are going to come into agreement if four o'clock on Friday comes and goes, and I have not gotten that from you. Now I've got an easier way to come back and say, okay, is everything okay? We agreed on this, what got in the way, and now that conversation is expected.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Yeah. Yeah.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I'm curious because it,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

because

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

it seems simple

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

seems

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

and

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and I'm

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

sure

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

you know, listeners have heard a lot of people talk about needing to

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

expectations.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

when they're delegating. In particular, what do you think gets in the

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

What, what

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

what

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

leader from clearly defining their expectations in that way.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

in that way?

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I think we have a hard time slowing down and being very honest and very clear of what we want to get out of that, or what we want to do, you know? We either assume that people can read our minds or that we're going to get to the same conclusion. Sometimes you don't wanna feel like you're micromanaging or nagging, but the reality is you've gotta sit with it. It probably takes you. Longer than you want to send a very clear email, text, or Slack message. But that clarity allows people to move with confidence and allows them to take the next right steps. And I think we need to sit with things instead of just checking it off the to-do list that I turned it over to you now this is your problem to solve and now you can go off and do this. What do I need to get? And in sports broadcasting, I get one shot. And I have to know exactly what I'm gonna get out of those two questions. And so I need to sit with what that ask is before I ever bring it up with an athlete. Mm-hmm.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Yeah. And I,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

I don't

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I don't think that should be different necessarily in leadership either that,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

that,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Rethinking that, sitting with it before the actual encounter or the actual act. Yeah. And it changes everything about the conversation. It is everything from could you call me when you get a chance to let me know what you think to, you know, do you have time to chat? We think we're communicating and what we're actually doing is creating a lot of drama and confusion. All anybody wants is to be able to contribute, to have value, and to know that they're doing something great for the team. It doesn't matter if you're an athlete or if it is your team at work and the clearer you can make that by going one step further, right? Could you call me sometime before five o'clock? I've got a few ideas I wanna run past you on a new marketing campaign, and I think you're the person to ask. That makes all the difference in how that conversation is received and the level of communication that was had. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I love what I've heard here too about, I think you're the person to ask, you are, you are showing them

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

them

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

they matter,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

matter, that they're needed.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

You're also injecting a little bit of the y so,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

There

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

that they

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

they

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

have that meaning behind their.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

their work.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Further

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

can further

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

found upon that as you comment, but even just in that

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

short

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

of sentence,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

you gave, you

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

gave some clarity around what was going to be asked. Kind of why, why it matters then you're able to build on that

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

that

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

the conversation first. Yep, yep.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Yeah.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

That's great. That's great. Well, one thing that I heard from you talk about

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

is open-ended questions and in particular in negotiations. Mean you said that they're

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Always

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

always helpful.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

So open-ended questions aren't always helpful.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

in negotiations. Can

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Tell me more about that.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

that? I'm curious.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I consider every interaction that I have with an athlete, a negotiation. None of them have to talk to me. I am always trying to convince them as to why they should talk to me right now about a certain subject. And here is what I have learned in all of the hundreds of thousands of interviews and people that I've talked to. The answer is what the answer was always going to be. Now if you are talking about I'm negotiating for one extra vacation day, or I'm looking for this much more revenue for this outcome, yeah, there's some wiggle room there, but. In general, the answer is what? The answer is. You could go and ask for a raise. If that raise is 25% of what you are already making and that just isn't gonna work based on the pool of money to be divvied up. It does not matter how many ways you ask the question or state your case and try to make this very fluffy. So here's what we need to do. Just ask the real question. And it's okay to ask a yes no question because sometimes the answer is. Yes or no? Was this within the scope of work that you were looking at Now? I hope that the answer is yes, right? Because if I want you to hire me, I hope the answer is yes, but 14 paragraphs and a whole bunch of questions in an email does not change whether it fits into your budget or not, or whether it's the scope of work. So stop with the extra and don't be afraid of how that conversation is gonna play out. It. Just ask the question because the clarity right there is more valuable than anything else. And now you can come back with, would you like me to resubmit the proposal, or would you like me to circle back around in six months when this might be a better option for you? Right? Don't be afraid of what the outcome is. It's not about you.'cause the answer was what? The answer was always going to be. Mm-hmm.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Yeah. And that, that gets back to

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

what you were talking about, that the emotion in the locker room isn't directed to you. I think when you just said, you know,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

it's,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

not about you,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

you.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

your wife, what gonna be,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

be.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

What

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

What

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

that the main

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

obstacle

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

when you're working with leaders,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

you

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

speaking

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

being able to get through that

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

question

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

directly

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

you know,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

or. Is it

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

is

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

something else that,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

keeps them from doing

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

well, again, it's a lot of fear, like the internal fear of how that plays out or how that feels on the other side of the conversation. I think the other part of this is we count on conversational norms and conventional wisdom, and we count on somebody else to carry the other part of the conversation. You know, a lot of times when I am talking to folks about open-ended questions and closed-ended questions, you know, I, I'm, I am thinking about it from the broadcasting standpoint. My post-game interviews are generally three questions. I don't have time to ease into that conversation. Every question has a very specific answer, and conventional wisdom would tell you that all open-ended questions are good because it gets people talking, and most of the time people will answer your question because that is our conversational norm. It doesn't mean it's the right answer. It doesn't mean it's a good answer. It doesn't mean that it's the answer that gets you closer. We have this illusion that we are communicating and talking to each other, but we really didn't know what we wanted to get out of the question in the first place. We really didn't know how it was gonna further the conversation. We really didn't know what direction we were gonna take because we didn't think through the entire conversation, which is not to say that I'm trying to put words into somebody's mouth, but if I ask you an open-ended question. There is a fear on the other side that you don't wanna disappoint me and you don't know what the right answer is and the easier I can make that answer. So I always go into a post-game interview thinking the answer should be easy and obvious. Not that they wanna talk about the error or you know, what happened on the power play, but they know there's only one answer to that question and they have full confidence. They can give the answer whether anybody likes that answer or not.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Yeah.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

The,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I love that the answer should be easy and obvious when you're asking that question. And I think what I'm hearing there too, getting back to what we were talking about, about the preparation necessary

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

before

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

communication is that you are being intentional. With

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

With

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

question that you're asking, with every conversation that you're going in, of course we're working with

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

with

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

a human, human interaction, so it may not play out

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

directly according

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

secret, but at least you have a goal going in and

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

you thought about what their goal might be and

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

be

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

how they might.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

they might respond.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Yeah, and you don't have to know what the answer is, but you do know what it feels like when you need to make a decision, right? You know what you would appreciate in the decision making process. It's an easy and obvious decision, right? Whether it's, no, I can't give you 25% is your raise this year. I can however give you 5% and here's how we can help work towards the next part, right? It just, it's removing confusion. It is being kind. It is being easy to talk to because when you are easy to talk to people, probably will, and that is half the battle of relationship building. That is half the battle of leadership and trust. If people are afraid to talk to you for their own insecurities or just kind of how awkward that is, or the fear that exists, it's hard to be an effective leader if people don't feel comfortable having a conversation.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And if they have that stability and that confidence that they know what they're gonna get when they're talking to you,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

That makes

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

it even easier

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

come

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

with the tough topics, the tough conversations. Yeah.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Yeah. Yeah.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Well,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

what

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

you touched on this a little bit, but I just wanna dig in a little bit deeper about thoughtful questions and how they can build trust.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and uncover hidden needs.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

What does that look like in

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

practice,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

So from your experience on the sidelines or maybe working with leader in the workplace? So it probably means using the first question that comes to mind as the starting point, but probably developing that one, one or two times past. Where you were gonna go, right? So here's an example from the sidelines. If you were a sports fan, you hear this one all the time, there's a big win, and the reporter will ask, how did it feel? And I can tell you, because I have covered both a Super Bowl win and a crushing Super Bowl loss, the answer to that question. Is pretty self-explanatory, right? How do you think it feels to win the Super Bowl? It feels awesome. What? What answer were you possibly gonna get that was

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

genuine, real, and authentic Flip side. How does it feel to lose a Super Bowl? It's the worst crushing feeling you could possibly imagine as a professional, right? If I really want you to talk about the feeling of celebration. I need to go one or two steps past that. So if we're gonna talk about celebration, my question might end up to be, because look, everybody likes the feeling of celebrating, right? Who's the first person you're gonna call to celebrate this win with? And now I've got more storytelling involved in it because now you're gonna tell me about your parent, your spouse, your sibling, your former coach who helped get you to this point. And now this is a shared experience because we all have the person that we would call with good news, right? It also might be how long are you gonna give yourself to celebrate this win? Now I'm talking about the fact that I can't get to see my family until the middle of the week, or they're all flying there. There's a story there, right? And so I am looking to go one step further to make that connection so that you were forced to tell me a story, even if it sounds like it is a closed question, right? So if we ask the question, how does it feel? That is an open-ended question. I could give any number of answers to that question. You're probably gonna get the same answer over and over and over again because nobody wants to, right? Give the wrong answer, you know, go outside the line, talk too much about themselves, talk too much about the win rate. If I just set up a space where you know what the answer is, I've added value to the conversation. I've also built trust and rapport because now they can relax and know. I've got you in this, right? It was thoughtful. I knew exactly what I was trying to accomplish, and you and I just made a connection in just a few seconds. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What a great, excuse me, what a great example. How would that translate to the work today? Yeah, so I think really it's just about any number of things. Anytime you think about the open-ended question. Think about what you were actually trying to get out of it. So let's go to feedback, right? Could you let me know what you think about this? Or what do you think about this? How many times do we just ask for that? Right? It's the end of an email or maybe it's the end of a meeting, right? Does anybody have anything to add? Okay. How many times do people just readily raise their hand and stay on topic while talking about the thing that they want to add? Right. There's a lot of different things that I could add, but let's narrow this down and let's be really thoughtful about it. Does anybody have anything to add related to the timeline of the new marketing idea based on their experience within this group? That is a very different question, and that focuses the conversation right where we need it to go if we're going to ask. What are your thoughts on this? It's going to be very difficult to get actionable feedback because I didn't make this easy and obvious. Here's where yes, no questions really come into play. What do you think about the font size and the information I used in the PowerPoint? Those are the two things I'm looking for feedback on, and those are pretty easy. You either like them or you don't like them, and now I know if I need to. Change them.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

if that's not the issue, then you're gonna tell me what it is. Right. Narrow that focus, you'll get a more effective answer and you're probably gonna get a quicker response to.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Yeah. And that goes in with a lot of times I will talk to leaders

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

leaders

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

have

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

asked their

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

for feedback and they're, you

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and they're just,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

know, frustrated because they're not getting

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

any

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

feedback and you have two things that work there.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

You have the power differential first,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

But then it's also, it wasn't specific. The

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

The

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

wasn't.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

easy as you had said. So

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

what we talk about

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

is.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

something working on this? Yeah,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

as a leader, and can you say,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I'm working on this.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

this.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Yeah. How did I do in this meeting with particular skills? Yes.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

example?

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Yes, and you can use what we would think about as non-traditional questions to get feedback. We do it all the time. So you could have folks rank things in order of importance or based on how you did it. I'm working on clarity in my messaging, respecting everybody's time and getting everybody involved. Could you rank. Which one I did best at, second, best at, and third best at. Right? If that, if we're still trying to get over some of the, the power differential and encouraging people to give feedback, because again, we need to make this safe for people. If you want real feedback, we need to show them that the, these answers are okay. And it's okay to say that I wasn't very good at respecting people's time today. Okay.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

the feedback that I need. Right? On a scale of one to 10, how did I do with each one of those things? Anything is possible on that. Right. But it, the minute I put parameters around this, it's so much easier to get the answers that you really need. Definitely. Have you had an experience where being so planned out and

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

directed. Knowing what you were going for has in a sense not put blinders on the conversation, but perhaps kept you from surfacing some information or stories that might have come.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

with a more open-ended

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Here's how I look at preparing for conversations, and I'll tell people this, whether you're giving presentations or you're writing out questions for a podcast. When you know what you're trying to accomplish, it's so much easier to go off script. Because I know how to get right back on script. I would say where trips me up most often is in small talk, and I hate to admit that because I am really big on the power of small talk, but I can get very focused on where I'm going next in the conversation and I forget to bring things to the conversation. I forget to be interesting. I forget to ask the question, but in a business setting, I do think that having. That awareness allows me to show up and be authentic and present in the moment because I'm not worried about what I'm not gonna get accomplished. Does that make sense? I'm not worried that I'm gonna walk away from that conversation and not get my outcome taken care of. I do get a chance to go off script a little bit more, dive in, and then say, oh, we needed to get back to just this one more thing. Or, I have this last question, or I did not get the answer that we needed. On, you know, whatever topic is still remaining on the agenda. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Yeah.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

pre thought. That

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

pre-planning

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

you the flexibility to go different directions and shift if you need to.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

because you

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

know, that you have in your mind what the ultimate goal.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

goal was, and you will ultimately get back to that.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

And I think a lot of that comes from live TV and radio. You know, we practice before we actually go on live tv.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Our back and forth in our banter isn't scripted, but we have an idea of where we want it to go. And here's what often happens. We will rehearse the entire pre-game show and we'll have this great banter back and forth and we'll all have our notes written and we know where we're trying to go. And then real life and real TV happens and. Somebody says exactly what you were gonna say right before you said it, which is frustrating, and you're like, oh, you just took the words right outta my mouth. But if I know all the other things that I can bring up in that conversation, I'm not gonna panic, right? Just because it didn't go exactly according to script doesn't mean that it's not helpful, means that I've still got an entire sheet of stats to pull from and talking points so that it stays on track and we don't go off the rails during a live TV broadcast.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Yeah.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

That's a great example because that is such a high pressure situation and you have to, you know, in the moment,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

shift

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

change where you're going. So then, you know, if there's a leader out there

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

out

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

thinking about

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

about

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

conversation that they have coming up

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

I

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I can't imagine how it would be even higher pressure than

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

than

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

being online.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

tv.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Well, it's a different type of pressure. Yes, yes. And I think about questions both ways. I think about the answer as a positive, and I think about the question of what if they don't respond well to this? I think about, did I throw somebody inadvertently under the bus? These interviews are taking place in front of teammates and coaches and fans and front office people, right? And so when you practice the conversation. It's like the choose your own adventure. You can go back through and choose the other adventure and figure out, how would I say this? If some, if something happens, how do I not respond defensively? You know, again, what am I really trying to accomplish? What are the words I can use? How can I say this? To keep things on track, even if this goes completely towards left field, and I, I did not anticipate it doing that.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

When you see either other broadcasters,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

and I obviously won't ask you to name names, but

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

either

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

other people in your line of work or leaders that you've had the opportunity.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to work with or to witness really struggle with this

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

idea of preparation, what?

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

usually needs to shift in them in order for them to do it effectively?

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Realizing how powerful small interactions are. I call them bubblegum moments. So

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

our pitching coach for the Mariners used to hand me a piece of bubblegum before he walked onto the field and walked towards the bullpen. And it was kind of a little inside joke for a couple of years. And I am either on TV or getting ready to go on tv. And so I would put the bubble gum in my little makeup kit that I only take on the sidelines that only has like three tubes of lipstick and. Hairspray and powder, right? There's nothing in this bag, and I wouldn't think about that bubble gum again until I couldn't zip the bag up. And as it turns out, one or two pieces of gum doesn't take up a lot of room. Him five, six, and seven pieces of gum mean that I can't zip that bag again. And I've joked with him over the years because I'll talk about that in corporate presentations and I'll just tell him, look, it it. We have a hard time visualizing what a small action or interaction does. I know the power of one word, one question, and 15 seconds because that's how we talk in tv. And so if we recognize as leaders that bubble gum effect, that bubble gum moment, all you're trying to do, here's another sports analogy, is stack wins. You can't do everything. Can't be a home run. Everything is not a touchdown pass. It has to be about stacking wins. So if I look at that and I get more strategic about how I'm going to get those wins, I know from listening to hours of myself talking and transcribing interviews, I know when I didn't prepare and I know when that question led to an answer that everybody else got. I also know what happens when I took time to prepare. And I got a funny laugh out loud, genuine story that I had never heard before because there was a different type of space created.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

so I would encourage everybody to think about the bubblegum and how many different ways can you figure out how to stack wins and to have those bubblegum moments during the course of the day. Mm-hmm.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

That's interesting because you're talking about the small moments

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

about the small

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

and immediately my brain went.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to, well, if it's a small moment, I don't need to worry about preparing very much.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

No, that's, so I would say this in broadcasting, networking happens just a few seconds at a time and seconds are how we measure conversations on tv. We do not measure them in minutes. You get 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 45 seconds. That's generally how we talk. If you only get 15 seconds to tell a story, you have to be really, really choosy with your words, very concise and. Telling your story in a very specific way in a locker room. I don't get to go to happy hour with these guys. We don't eat lunch together. There's no networking events. They don't have the time, or quite honestly, the tolerance to talk to me for 30 minutes at a time, which would be my preference'cause that's how I like to relate to people in general. I get less than 60 seconds of their time. I know the power of hello and I know the power of making sure that. Those few seconds count, because all of that is what leads to authentic, honest conversations on game day following wins and losses. I have to be very dialed into that conversation because I, I don't, I don't get leeway on either side of a cup of coffee,'cause that's just not how we're interacting during the course of the day. Yeah. And if I think

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

of the parallel

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

leadership, if you have done your research. On your team

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

on your

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

member, meaning, you know, what makes them,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

tick, you know what

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

you know what their strengths are, you know about, you know, maybe something outside of work. You can create those small moments because you have done that sort of collaboration and the words that you choose make a powerful difference. So part of this, if I take this conversation back to the tough conversation and how we set expectations. The way we deliver praise not only helps with tough conversations, but it really adds value to your team. These interactions don't have to be long. It doesn't mean that you need to have one-on-ones every week. If you're not already doing that, maybe that is a valuable piece to the puzzle that you're gonna implement, but just handing out an accurate compliment. Can make all the difference in the world. So for example, I could tell you that you did a great job, right? And I hand out great jobs just like kids going through the handshake line after their little league game, right? Great job, great job, great job, great job. But if I say, you really came through in the clutch, and I appreciate that effort that lands a little bit differently to the person who really prides themselves on coming through when they know that. It is a situation they need to take care of. High pressure in the clutch, recognizing somebody as being on time deadline driven is accurate and would likely hit their heart. But more than saying great job. And it's very important on the other side of that because when I give accurate praise, it makes me. It makes it easier for me to give accurate feedback as a result. So when you get to know your team, and you could even give them a list of words, I'll do this, put five words on the page. Ask them to rank those words in order. Those words could be clutch, astounding, superb. Timely, right? Awesome. Doesn't really matter what the words are. Just get a wide range of words and ask your team to rank those words in order of their preference. You will find out a lot about how they receive praise and what lands with them. Change one word and how you talk about their work and you change everything about how they feel regarding the job that they did.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Hmm. Interesting.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I've never thought about asking people about different

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

words

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

that and think about how much.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

much insight you would gain into them just through that simple activity.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Thank you for that. Yeah. Well if there's someone out there that is saying, you

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

saying, you

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

know, this sounds like a lot of work

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

work, a

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

preparation,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

you

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

have so much else on my plate,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Why is this perfect?

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

it? To invest the time and preparation.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

'cause ultimately you are gonna get more done in less time. I know this does not feel like it's less time, but when you start thinking strategically and when you start communicating with intention, that's effective communication. We don't need more communication. We don't need to say the same thing. You don't need to have a meeting about the same topic for six weeks before implementing. Whatever that new strategy is, right. When you take time at the beginning, you're gonna get more out of it. You're also gonna build the team that you want around you so that they can function with confidence, so that they can truly put their skills in position to be valuable to you. And once you start thinking about these things, whether it's ETA or using that one word to compliment, it really does become second nature. And it doesn't mean that every single conversation you have. Is going to be executed like this. There are plenty of times I walk into the coffee shop and I don't have anything to say. Right. Like, it's just knowing that that tool is there for you and that it, a, a small change can make a big difference in your level of communication.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Yeah.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Well, if there's

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

there's

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

leader that wants to practice

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

this week, maybe wants

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

start,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

stacking wins,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

and you know.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

know, maybe not just

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

A question

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

a new type of question,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

really stretching who they're as a communicator, what's one way they can start? Oh gosh. In addition to the ones that we already have.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Mm-hmm.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Okay. I would say this, there's two things. Number one, ask a question you don't know the answer to. That is how you practice vulnerability and it's not gonna feel comfortable, but if you practice in small moments, it's gonna make it easier when you're in front of your entire team. And the second one I would say is use the question, how are you to deliver a success statement? So success statement goes beyond the one word response. How are you? Is an open-ended question. And most often, instead of giving a lengthy response, we default to good. Fine. Great. When we go one step further, we're gonna be able to connect to our team and make the follow-up questions easy and obvious. So when somebody from your team, or maybe you just practice this with a barista at the coffee shop, right? How are you today? I'm awesome. My inbox is totally clean and my team is on track for a big deadline. I've just shared with you a couple of things that I'm really proud of. My inbox is totally clean, which by the way, if you have that, I am so impressed with you because there are 300 emails in my inbox, right? That's a huge win. Right. You've gotten a chance to brag about your team, and now I've got two topics that I could ask you about to keep the conversation going, and you've just given me insight into who you are when you do this as a leader. You're also giving your team permission to do the same thing, and they should be doing that. They should be sharing wins. They should be talking about their family. We shouldn't be waiting for the real conversation to start after that exchange. That is the most pivotal moment in every single conversation. We just overlook it. So practice being strategic and intentional. And by the way, you only need one, maybe two success statements for the week. You don't have to do this 60 times. I have a couple I know going into the week things that I want to talk about that I know nobody's gonna ask me about unless I bring up. So now this is your chance to practice those conversation skills, making it easy for people to ask questions to connect with you, and we're just kind of bringing everything full circle there with what it looks like to communicate effectively.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Yeah, it's,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

so simple and.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and, and

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Something that a leader could try,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

could try

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

and then even if you aren't someone who like

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

to

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

to be on stage or

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

or,

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

you know, have a spotlight on you, you said one or two success

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

statements and

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

you were able to speak them in a matter of

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

seconds. But it

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

So much to open up the conversation as well as to give people

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

insight into who you are as a person. So

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

I love that. Yeah. And use sports. If it feels uncomfortable to talk about yourself, use sports. I love the outcome of Sunday's game. I loved watching my alma mater win on Saturday. It's just as easy to start a conversation that way, as it is to talk about work.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Very

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

very true. Well, thank you so much for this, Jen. If people wanna learn more about you and

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

about you

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

the work.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

that you do, where

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

The best place

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

for them

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

go. The website is talk sporty to me.com. You can also find me on YouTube and all the socials will get you to me as well. If you just search, talk Sporty to me.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

Excellent.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Thank you again for

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

your

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

Thank you

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

you

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

for what you're doing

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

are doing both in

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

in the world of sports,

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

and

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

world of leadership and business to help us all connect better and

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

be

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

effective.

teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123224:

communicators.

jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103224:

it's been my pleasure, Terry.

Well, thanks again to Jen for joining me for this conversation, and thank you for listening. I hope her stories from the sidelines gave you a new perspective on what it really takes to move beyond the buzzword of effective communication. This week, I challenge you to go deeper by adding one more layer of clarity to a request or expectation that you share with one of your team members. Don't just ask for something to be done. Spell out what success looks like when you need it, and why it matters. Have a great week and I will talk to you again next Wednesday.