Strong Leaders Serve with Teri Schmidt

172. Is Your Brain Blocking your Leadership Growth? with Ursula Pottinga

• Teri Schmidt

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Do you feel stuck in your efforts to make positive changes in your leadership?  Your brain's drive to save energy may be to blame.  

Join Teri Schmidt and Ursula Pottinga as they discuss how your brain can get in the way of change and what to do about it.

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Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teri-m-schmidt/

Get 1-on-1 leadership support from Teri here: https://www.strongleadersserve.com/coaching

Set up an intro call with Teri: https://calendly.com/terischmidt/discoverycall

Microphone (Wireless Microphone RX)-1:

Are you a leader who started out this year wanting to lead differently? Did you have resolutions for how you'd make changes or establish new habits that would help you deal with the never ending workload that you face as a compassionate, driven leader? And now we're halfway through February and you're frustrated? You're not alone. In fact, I'm right there with you. As it turns out, there are ways in which our brains actually get in the way of us making positive changes. So I invited Ursula Pottinga, an expert in neuroscience and coaching, to discuss why this happens and what we can do about it. Ursula is a certified coach with more than 20 years of experience living and working in Europe, Canada, Asia, and the U. S. The co founder of Be Above Leadership and the co designer of its groundbreaking advanced coaching programs and webinars. She's a skillful workshop leader and mentor she is also a certified relational trauma and neuroscience coach to bring about change and healing in organizations that have been impacted by relational trauma. She speaks internationally and has co authored a number of books. So she's definitely qualified to have this conversation with me. Speaking of introductions, if you don't know me, I'm Terri Schmitt, Executive and Leadership Coach at Strong Leaders Serve, where we partner with compassionate, driven leaders to transform potential into And this is the Strong Leaders Serve podcast.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Welcome to the Strong Leaders Serve podcast, Ursula. I'm so looking forward to our conversation today.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Yes, likewise. Then thank you for having me. I'm always interested and excited about talking about leaders and how they can serve better and also for their own, you know, their own growth and development,

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Yes, definitely. And when we can talk about neuroscience on top of all that, I

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

it's a bonus.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

even more exciting,

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Yeah, definitely. Hmm.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

we talked a little bit about it, but you know, I was one of those compassionate driven leaders that I primarily partner with now. And I, you know, wanted to do everything on my own and, and read all the books and improve all the time. And then I had one opportunity to sit down with a coach. And I could not figure out why the change happened so quickly after that. And then after having the pleasure of getting to have you in my UTD program and learn a little bit more about how our brain works, and then do a little bit research myself. It really is fascinating how the brain can sometimes get in our way when we want to make positive changes, and it can also help us, but I'd love to, you know, dig in today a little bit about we may not even be aware of how it can get in our way. And how sometimes having that trusted partner, whether that be a coach or someone else to talk to can, can help us to uh, get around that in a sense.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Yeah, no, absolutely.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

I'd love to start with you in terms of, you know, what first inspired you to study the intersection of neuroscience and coaching?

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

I is such a great question and I was reflecting back on that. So as you know, I have a wonderful business partner and and you know, we've been partners for 22 years and have always been a really fascinated and interested about consciousness is. And so for many years we, you know, studied the work of Dr. David Hawkins, the map of consciousness. We, we read and studied other thought leaders. And then at one point it was actually Anne who called me and said, you know in terms of coaching and consciousness, she said, there has to be a connection here somewhere. And I think the doorway to that connection is through neuroscience. And so she somewhat tentatively shared with me that she was thinking of enrolling in the Neural Leadership Institute. And it was, it was very sweet and it was very funny. She said, well, you know, I'm really thinking about that, but I don't know how you feel about it. And so my first reaction was, you go right ahead with that. That's not how my brain works. That is not something I don't think I can ever do. And so she said, Okay, she said, Would you mind then if I do that? I said, No, absolutely. You go ahead. I mean, that's really your deal. Well, she enrolled and lo and behold, First session with Neuroleadership Institute, she called me back and said, You know, you have no idea what we talked about today, Neuroleadership Institute. You know, it was about neuroplasticity and here's how the brain works and how it links to coaching. And so we would have these ongoing conversations. And every time she would call me with yet another insight about the brain, I would say, Oh, I can feel a coaching tool coming on. And so, I got sort of somewhat inspired and in a way sucked in, really, by the novelty and the, the interest and the fascination. The more we talked about it, the more I realized there was really such a deep connection that was Super valuable for coaches, for our clients, for leaders, for myself that needed to be explored. And so, you know, a year later, she and I enrolled in a program that Dr Dan Siegel had for a year. And basically I was I was committed. I was in love with the science. And you know, from then we just kept adding. to our own development in terms of study and reading. And then we created, you know, our advanced coaching program. So it was really her inspiration. And then what she shared with me in terms of neuroscience made so much sense. And there were so many light bulb moments for me personally. I suddenly understood myself. So much better, and I thought we need to share this in a way that's useful and so Here we are 17 years later, and I can't imagine life without neuroscience Yeah,

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

and story. You know, the fact that you were pretty hesitant at the beginning

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

I was I was adamant

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

me to believe, but that is That is so, so funny. I think so many things in life sometimes happen that way, whether that be, you know, a, a spousal relationship or something else at first, it might be the person we don't want to with that we end up, you know, spending our lives with,

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Yeah. No. Yeah, absolutely. And it's a it's interesting. This story also really connects to neuroplasticity because basically what I was saying to end is I don't have any neural pathways in my brain as it relates to science. In school, I was a linguist, so languages was my deal, you know, science, social science, geography, you know, all of that and languages, but that is what I loved. And so my response was really a brain response. It's like, I don't have any neural plasticity and neural pathways there. And therefore. It feels really uncomfortable even thinking about it. And this uncomfortable notion is really about brain wiring and neural pathways. And then, of course, the more we talked about neuroscience and the more we developed our tools, the more neural connections I had in my brain that then really made this journey just a little bit easier. Thank you. And then with practice, it became better and better and more fluid and easier. But the first, the first year, first year and a half, the first two years, there were a struggle. I struggled. I mean, I really did with understanding it, making sense of it, remembering it all the technical terms. But then, you know, you, you, you do this. Day in day out and then over time it begins to be so obvious,

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Yeah.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Which is not obvious to begin with.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Yeah. Yeah. And that becoming obvious, are those new neural pathways, you know, getting

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Yeah. absolutely.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

excellent point. Yeah. Thank you for calling that out. And it's a great jumping off point, too. I mentioned to you when we were talking before we hit record that the leaders I work with I call compassionate driven leaders because they care as deeply about the people that they work with and ensuring that they also can become leaders themselves.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

hmm.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

As they do about the business results that they are aiming for. So, I think sometimes when you hear a compassionate leaders, you think they aren't driven by business results and vice versa. But those that I work with are really about both of those together, which can bring up some unique challenges. but that driven piece, you know, because they have that drive, they're, they're usually very successful on their own. But sometimes, like I mentioned at the beginning, they struggle to change something that they want to change. So, I'd love if you could kind of build in on what you were just talking about in neural pathways maybe. Talk about what needs to happen in the brain for someone to make a change.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Oh, it's such a great question. And just like you, I, you know, work with the same kind of clientele. Definitely driven, definitely very empathetic. And I think what I see in this particularly, there's a sort of a couple of you know. Faces and names that are coming to me as I'm talking that drivenness has created already a neural pathway. So something that we do a lot and we repeat again and again and again becomes a very strong neural wiring. And if that habit is a habit that proves to be effective and serves the individual as well as the people they are working with, If this is an effective neural pathway, then we can really say, Okay, this is good. I can let my brain travel along that superhighway. But when we find that there are habits and actions and thoughts that we have created over long periods of time that feel like a struggle, they don't, it doesn't feel like they serve us anymore. Then changing that is a problem because it's the same superhighway and the way the brain works is it's trying to conserve energy. So the brain runs on glucose and because of that is sort of somewhat lazy. It's trying to conserve energy. So it uses the thickest neural connection that there is in the brain because it then Really, it's faster firing. I mean, it's a little bit like, you know, an electricity cord that you have in your house. The thicker the cord, the faster the firing to the lamp, to the, you know, whatever it is. And then the skinnier cords, the firing there, it takes, it takes a lot longer. So the metaphor of the superhighway are those neural pathways that we have used for often years. And then the dirt road, as I call them, are the new habits we're trying to create. And they're bumpy, you know, they're full of potholes and they're full of rocks and stones and obstacles. And so that metaphor of the dirt road and the superhighway fits perfectly. with neuroplasticity. So anything that you have done for long periods of time that feels comfortable is our comfort zone. Those habits are really hard to change because you have start to, you basically start to build a dirt road that takes a lot of intention and attention. And so that is what the brain is then struggling with is putting that energy. to those harder accessible roads. And so tiredness, stress, those have an impact on whether we're using the superhighway or whether we're using our energy to travel along that dirt road. So anything new that you want to create and change will be that proverbial metaphorical dirt road. And I think it helps to understand that it is a dirt road and therefore it is just harder. It's just harder to travel along that path and giving yourself permission to be patient, to make mistakes. To sometimes slide back to the old habits again because that superhighway is super strong Can help us feel more comfortable with the uncomfortableness of of

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

I love the, the dirt road analogy because it, it makes it so easy to, to think about and what you said too about, anytime we're under stress or, you know, whether that be, affecting us emotionally or physically it's That we're likely to go back to that, that superhighway and You know, two topics that we're dealing with on the podcast for a little bit now for several episodes are two challenges that I see in a lot of my clients. And that is workload, you know, the intense workload and a sense of disconnection, whether that be from other people or from the mission of the organization they're working with. And I can see those two challenges really driving even the. Best, you know, most well intentioned leader back to the superhighways that maybe they would like to get off

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Yeah, absolutely. Because the, the, the workload, the inability or the there's less time to reflect. There's less time to sort of relax. There's less time to ponder. All of that intense focus takes a lot of energy. And so doing something new, it's almost like the resources have been used. For workload and there isn't enough of a resource in the brain and in the body that's left for change and really sort of moving along this, this, this bumpy road. Now there are seven key factors to neuroplasticity and I want to sort of touch lightly on those because I think they're also will address a little bit the connection and the workload challenge. Thank you. So the seven key factors are things like, for example, novelty. Novelty, that when something is new, it really creates excitement in the brain. It's also rewarding to the brain. So anytime we do something that's new, yeah, it's challenging. But the excitement and the reward will also help us create those new neural connections. So novelty in terms of change is important. If the brain is not interested in things that are boring, it loses attention. And so when you're thinking about wanting to change a habit, you have to, you have to try and figure out how can we do it in a way that's novel, that's interesting.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Mm

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

The other thing, and this is in relationship to connection, one of the biggest key factors, an important one to neuroplasticity, is relationship. So when we are in relationship, it is easier for us to make a change. And I think that is where coaching comes in. A coach is such a good advocate, a sounding board, an accountability body, you know, there's a safe space of also sharing our emotional struggles with that person, and all of that will really help with the, with the, the neuroscience load on the brain and will help us sort of offload that a little bit. To someone who can can support us and help us. So relationship is, is really, really important. We do better as human beings when we're connected, not only in relationship to change, but generally. So there's novelty. There's relationship and then the other one is making mistakes is one of the key factors. So that's actually a little bit I think of a cultural twist because we think making mistake is a bad thing. Well, you know that when you are not sure about something or when you are making a mistake, it gives you the signal that your brain is really traveling along this dirt road. It's not your comfort zone. It's not the, you know, you do what you always have done. And so making mistakes helps the brain prune, cut off certain pathways that might lead us in the wrong direction and help us really stick with the road at hand. And again, I think that is where coaching comes in because a coach can really help us with the question of saying, okay, How did that work and what didn't work and what did work? Because if you don't have that, then we might be doing something wrong again and again and again and again. And before we know, we've created a new neural pathway, but it's the wrong, it's the wrong pathway, right? And it's like, okay, why did I do this? Why did I do this? Now I have to reverse course and, you know, go in the wrong direction. So it can, again, relationship. Making mistakes that can really be helpful in terms of, you know, reflection and action and shifting when we need to shift and move. So if you are a leader and you are wanting to change something, find an advocate. If you don't have a coach, find, find a buddy, find an advocate, find someone that's a good sounding board, that's a good person to brainstorm. That's that you can check in with and saying, this is how I think about this. Am I right? What are you seeing? Because that will help your brain create the pathway in the right direction rather than, you know, you having to create a detour and go like, oops,

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Right,

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

oops, wrong way.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Yeah and not only wrong way one time actually creating like you said that new neural pathway.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Exactly, again and again and again. And then another key factor is actually rest. So I think this is where work overload comes in. If our brain doesn't get a chance to rest and relax and activate the default mode network, which is the network in the brain that helps us dream, we're going to ponder. Go to the past, go to the future. It's sort of permission to be distracted kind of brain. Very different from the task positive network, the other network that helps us to be very, very present in the moment and very, very focused on tasks. So, as a leader, if you are doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, focus, focus, focus, focus, And you don't give your brain a little bit of default mode network time. Over time, you will lose a certain amount of inspiration and motivation. And also creativity. Because the default mode taps into this relaxed state. That, for example, we have when we're in the shower. And we don't need to focus on anything. You know, we, there's nothing needed when we're in the shower. We can just relax and enjoy. And I don't know about you, but I have, I have the best ideas when I'm in the shower because I'm not trying to figure it out as I'm sitting in front of my computer or the desk. So if you're overloaded in terms of workload and you don't give your brain time to relax and ponder and dream, you are going to lose capacity. And so I think that speaks to, you know, work overload. Even if you only take 10 minutes, get up, go for a walk, let your mind wander. Don't go back to your to do list. Just dream. Look at the trees, the sky, take in the natural environment. All of that will help your brain relax. And I guarantee you, as soon as you come back to the office or your computer, whatever it is, the idea that you've been looking for is probably going to emerge through. That relaxed state of brain. So the drive to do, do, do, do. It has its limits. Your brain has a limited capacity to focus. And when it's done, it actually is done. We need to give it an opportunity to, to have that space more intentionally, that's, I think is the most important part of this whole network scenario.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Yeah, that you, that was the word I was going to use after listening to you that being intentional about it and, you know, having a little bit more, well, I would say control, but, you know, just intention around, you know, when you give your brain that rest that you need, like you said, um, to be the most effective leader that you can be. And then, you know, I just think about those overloaded. Leaders out there who are listening and who are thinking, you know, that's okay. I can, you know, if I just try harder, I can, I can figure this out. And, you know, I think what you said about creating those wrong dirt roads, those wrong branches and off, because you don't have someone to reflect with, you don't have the opportunity to Have someone who's skilled and asking you questions that might surface why that is the wrong road and might help you get, you know, back on that dirt road that you want to turn into a super highway. And so it's almost like a catch 22 because you think you're so busy, you don't have time to spend that time reflecting. And, and that's another reason, you know, I advocate for coaching so much. It's an intentional time that can accelerate. Those realizations and those reflections, especially when you're with someone who is skilled and knows how to access that and help you reflect.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

No, absolutely. It's a sort of an interesting thing. You're absolutely right. We think, Oh, I can figure this out. I just need to do one more thing. I can do this one more thing. Well, you probably can't and you are better served to stop just when you think I just got nothing left and you think you can do one more thing. My advice to you would be when you feel that you've come to your limit, stop and take a break. Take a rest. Do something simple. Many people meditate even 5 10 minutes. That is a restful place. As I said, going for a walk, journaling, doodling, do, you know, have coloring pencils somewhere. Something that doesn't require focused attention. And that will refresh your brain. It will refresh the energy. You will make fewer mistakes because your brain isn't overloaded. You will have more creativity and imagination, which you need for being also an innovative leader. And it's sort of like always funny to me that, you know, some, some organizations have these innovation programs, right? And But they don't give the people any time for default mode. They're just like, let's do innovation now.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

that's not where innovation comes from. Innovation comes from not thinking about it. But sending a little intention out there and sleeping on it. And you know, all of that, that is when the, when the solution comes. And I think. There is a little bit of a myth or a misunderstanding that working means doing and productivity. But your brain has two different ways of working. One way of working is focused attention and the other way it works is by mind wandering and dreaming. It's two different kinds of work and it still work.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You know, I don't think, you know, many people in our culture would say that that is work to, to dream and let your mind wander, but that, you know, the brain proves otherwise.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Yep.

ursula:

another one of the key factors, is personal relevance. We will only change what is personally relevant to us. Everything else is a should. I should be doing this. I should be better at that. But over time, if there isn't a strong motivation, if there isn't a strong inspiration, if it's not relevant to you, you might start, but it will fizzle out eventually. If it is important to you, you will make the effort. You will change it. You need to find the personal relevance. Is it in alignment with your values? Is it in alignment with your mission, your vision that you have for yourself? And if all that lines up, then making that change happening will be crucial. So much easier. And so if you are supervising and managing people and you feel they need to change something, make sure that you have the personal relevance and value conversation with them. Why is it important? How is it important? Why is it relevant? What's the motivation? Is it in alignment with their values? When you have that conversation, You will know whether they're really motivated by this or not. And if they're not motivated, my guess would be they might start, but it will never really truly land.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

I know that our brain is not necessarily a fan of uncertainty for many of the reasons that you've already talked about, but I'd love to hear more about you know, What we can do when we are going through those periods of uncertainty, where we don't have those patterns of behavior to rely on,

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Yeah,

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

and how the brain can get in our way, but also how we can get around that.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

No, this is I think so relevant. In today's world where I think things change faster than we can possibly keep up with. And again, it's an interesting in terms of the brain. So the research of Lisa Feldman Barrett. So you might want to just sort of keep a little bit of it. Sort of note for yourself if you're listening to this podcast. Her name is Lisa Feltman Barrett, and her research is really about how our emotions created. And so she has done some intensive research over many years with, you know, thousands and thousands of people, all peer reviewed. And what she has come to is really saying the brain constructs emotions Based on what it can predict.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Mm-hmm

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

the predictions are based on past experiences, history, context, and the current goal. And so the brain uses evidence from the past to help us with the prediction for what is coming next. And that is literally, either next moment, next week or next year. So this prediction cycle of, okay, here is how I feel. This feeling is based on something that I've experienced before. And now the question is, is this feeling and this prediction I have, what's going to happen next? Is this helping or not helping? So what the research shows is that when we have. negative predictions about something that's going to happen. That is usually based on something that was negative in the past, because otherwise the brain wouldn't make that connection. And so anytime we don't have a prediction about anything, so when it's unpredictable, the brain is literally looking for something is looking for some direction is looking. For some connection that can help us emotionally connect to what's going to come next and change is unpredictable. And so it is hugely challenging for the brain to have no data. So if you have been, you know, acquired by another company or there's been mergers or, you know, you have a new team or a new boss, but the first reaction of the brain is I have no idea what to do with it. I don't know who these people are. I don't know what this is. I don't know who this person is. So it sends us into this emotional tailspin where we really go down into frustration and anxiety and worry because the message of the brain is this is unpredictable and therefore it's bad news.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Mm-hmm

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

However, if we can put ourselves into that position again and ask ourselves, okay, I can't predict what's going to happen next because there's a new team, a new boss, whatever it is. I don't know what's going to happen with that because that's outside of my control. But what can I predict about myself?

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Hmm

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

How have I been handling change and new situations before? And so then the brain goes back to saying, Oh, When you were in this organization, there was change, and here is how you handled that. Or, when you moved to a different country, there was change. Here is how you handled it. Or whatever it might be, any change that you have lived through, the brain will use that as evidence, as a prediction factor of saying, you have no control over the uncontrollable, but what you can lean into, is what you can predict about yourself, that you were strong, that you were capable, that you were curious, that you were resilient, that you bounced back. Those are all things that we can then lean into that makes the unpredictable outside occurrences less scary because there's a prediction in here and in our brain that can help us navigate uncertain times. by focusing on the things that we simply can't control, which is outside of us. But looking in here and saying, you know what? Yeah, that is unpredictable. All that. But here's what I know about myself, about how I handled uncertainty before. How did you? How did you deal with the pandemic? How did you live through that? I mean, that's such a big unpredictable example that we all have lived through now. And the brain will tell you who you were being, predictably so, as you were living through these two years and coming out of it. So it's really building on an inner strength that you have, that the brain has evidence for. And so we can start looking for that internal evidence. And so the external hurricane that's out here swirling becomes less threatening because we've got something to hold on to that's internal. Does that make sense?

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

It does make sense. And, you know, I think, as you mentioned earlier, the energy saving nature of the brain, that gives it, you know, something to feel like it can predict what's going to happen next on. And I think Getting back to the reflection, it is, you know, so much easier sometimes when you can do that with a trusted partner as well, as opposed to trying to unearth that data in yourself and find the themes in that data so that then your brain can use it to predict. I just, you know, a few good questions asked of me can help me do that in about a hundredth of a time as ruminating on it in my own mind would do.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Absolutely. And especially, you know, when we are feeling anxious or frustrated or. You know, there are some emotions going on. It is much harder for the brain to find the clarity and the groundedness and the clarity of thinking. So, you know, we need a partner like a coach, for example, to also help us regulate these emotions so that we can have a clearer thinking pattern. And definitely as it relates to predictions, that is not an easy thing to figure out for yourself. You need someone who says to you, so what are you predicting and how does that feel? And what can you predict about yourself? What have you lived through that is much harder to access when you have to do it on your own for sure?

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Well, this has been a fascinating conversation, I would love to hear one question we've been asking all of our guests this season, is if you had one piece of advice for a compassionate, driven leader. What would that be? And everyone complains that I limit you to one, but I'm going to do that. You're

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

that I, that I have said, I think probably the, the biggest,

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

cheat.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Find what is important and relevant to you, not to what other people are telling you, you should be doing not what your boss says, not, you know, what feels like, oh, you know, that, that needs to be done, but really find, find this motivation inside of you that is values driven. You know, for you, because when you come from this personal relevance piece, you will number one, be more compassionate and following, you know, a changed path is going to be easier. You are also going to inspire others in much different ways than they can connect to, you know, this is important to me and therefore, you know, I can sign up for that. You know, what's important to the team. So if I have to narrow it down to one thing, it's, you know, find personal relevance. And then, you know, I know you said one, but I'll give another one. Is, I'm going to cheat. Be patient with yourself. Be compassionate with yourself. Change is hard. It doesn't happen overnight. Give yourself a break. Thank you. Don't be so hard on yourself. That's not gonna serve you or anyone else. Be compassionate with yourself and patient,

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Well, I'm going to take that advice myself and I'm sure many of our listeners appreciate it

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

including myself. I'm talking to myself right now. And

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

if people want to get in touch with you or learn more about the work that you do, where is the best place for them to go?

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

two places. Certainly, if you are a coach and you've listened to that, then be above leadership. We have a great website with our neuroscience and coaching programs. If you are a leader I also have a podcast that's on my website profound growth. com. You can also find me on LinkedIn and the, the podcast is very much neuro conversations at the intersection of neuroscience coaching and systems, because the system that you were in also has a huge impact on how you deal with this change and, and everything else. So profound growth you can reach me through my website there. So, and thank you so much. This was lovely conversation. Appreciate your questions and your curiosity and definitely love that you are supporting. strong leaders that are compassionate and driven because it's not an easy thing to integrate these two different, those different pieces. So really appreciate you. Thank you.

teri-schmidt_1_02-03-2025_140215:

Well, thank you. And thank you for sharing your wisdom and your experiences as well. And I'm sure that many of our listeners are going to go follow you. And I highly recommend your podcast as well. Had an opportunity to listen and it was fascinating.

ursula_1_02-03-2025_150216:

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Take care.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone RX)-2:

Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation, but if you don't know already, I'm pretty big on making sure that your time is well spent, and that actually helps you to make positive changes in your life. So every episode this season, we are going to end with two things, a reflection and a suggested action. So for today, for the reflection, I'd like you to take a minute to think about a change that you're currently trying to make in your leadership journey. What dirt roads are you trying to build and what super highways might be getting in your way? And as a suggested action, take 10 minutes today to engage your default mode network through an intentional break. I know it's hard when you're so busy, but try to take 10 minutes to either go for a walk, doodle, or simply look out the window without focusing on any specific task. Notice what insights or ideas emerge for you when you give your brain the space to wander. Remember, as Ursula shared, your brain has two different ways of working, focused attention and mind wandering. And both are valuable forms of work. By being intentional about incorporating both, you can enhance your effectiveness as a compassionate, driven leader. I'd love to hear how it goes for you, so shoot me a message over on LinkedIn. And if you are looking for a partner to help you get around some of those blocks that our brain puts in front of us, please reach out. I would love to partner with you. Have a great week, and I look forward to talking again with you next Wednesday.