Strong Leaders Serve with Teri Schmidt

163. Leadership Lessons Learned from Ultralight Backpacking with Glen Van Peski

• Teri Schmidt

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Do you feel the urge to simplify your life and leadership while still achieving impactful outcomes?

Our guest today, Glen Van Peski, founder of Gossamer Gear, provides a way to do that, utilizing lessons learned through ultralight backpacking.

Glen shares his unique leadership approach, emphasizing the power of vulnerability, the importance of prioritizing team well-being, and the priceless value of building genuine relationships. He reveals how taking less can lead to a more significant impact, both on the trail and in leadership.

We'll dive into practical lessons about adaptability, overcoming fears, and leading by example, drawing parallels between the minimalist approach in backpacking and effective leadership.

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Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teri-m-schmidt/

Get 1-on-1 leadership support from Teri here: https://www.strongertoserve.com/coaching

Set up an intro call with Teri: https://calendly.com/terischmidt/discoverycall

Are you drawn to adventure and minimalism? And do you wonder how combining those two things might make you a better leader? Well, today's guest, Glenn VanPesky, the founder of Gossamer Gear, is the perfect person to talk about this. He recently wrote a book titled, Take Less, Do More, chronicling the lessons he's learned through his experiences as an ultralight backpacker on the trail, with the likes of Matthew McConaughey and John Mackey, and leading in the workplace. Glenn is an entrepreneur, author, speaker, philanthropist, engineer, and dishwasher. Best known as the founder and managing director of Gossamer Gear, a leading cottage manufacturer of lightweight backpacking gear. He has interests in a number of startups. Glenn enjoys being outside and has backpacked and bike packed extensively in the U. S. and abroad. When not traveling, he lives in Bend with his wife of over 40 years, Francie. Our conversation includes stories and discussions of multiple leadership lessons, including how taking less allows you the margin to better be able to help others succeed, both in backpacking and in leadership. So let's get into it. I'm Terry Schmidt, your host and an executive and leadership coach at Strong Leaders Serve, where I partner with leaders to make work worth it. And this is the Strong Leaders Serve podcast.

Teri Schmidt:

Well, hi, Glenn. Welcome to the strong leader serve podcast. I'm honored and excited to have you on today.

Glen Van Peski:

Well, the honor's mine. Thank you, Terry. I've been looking forward to this for months now. So looking forward to, to chatting with you.

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah, you know, when I saw your book, and, and saw the work that you've done, I was excited to talk to you just because of my love of backpacking in general, but I got so much more out of reading your book that I'm excited to jump into today. So I wonder if we could just start with With you telling a little bit more about your journey and the experiences that have led you to the take less, do more philosophy.

Glen Van Peski:

Sure. And in, I guess in the take less, I'll try and condense it. You know, it's always a challenge to 66 years now of life, but so I'm a civil engineer, land development, civil engineer, and have done that my entire career. I've you know, went to, went to college, got a degree in engineering, I have a master's in business. I've worked, I've had my own engineering company, worked for other engineering companies and worked for municipal agencies, worked for the city that I lived in down in San Diego County. And along the way I've had some outdoor adventures. Nothing, Like I have friends that have done crazy outdoor adventures and so people tell me like, Oh, you've done a lot of outdoor adventures. Like, it doesn't seem like it compared to the friends I have, but I kind of started my first big adventure, which is actually still kind of my longest adventure actually was when I graduated high school in 1976 on the East coast and rode my bicycle 4, 200 miles across the United States to get to the West coast. And then, you know, I got busy with getting married, getting college education, getting married, raising a family. And it wasn't until really our oldest son, Brian, got into Boy Scouts that really got back into the outdoors in a significant way. And so, you know, Along the way, I ended up accidentally starting a backpacking gear company just from sewing my own gear to, to get it lighter. And so I've kind of had a number of careers, you know, the, the engineering career and then the side career of building a backpacking company. And as I worked over the years to lighten my gear backpack base weight. Backpackers talk about base weight, which is all the gear except what you're wearing and excluding food and water because that obviously depends on how long the trip is and how, you know, where you're going. Um, so my typical base pack weight is under five pounds these days. So that's You know, backpacks, sleeping mats, sleeping bag, tent, cooking gear, clothes, insulation, all that stuff. And so as I worked over the years to kind of hone down my, my weight and the stuff I carried I started to realize that. There were applications to the rest of life. And that included, you know, my life in leadership and engineering. So that's I ended up, I went on a number of hikes with John Mackey, the co founder of Whole Foods Market, who ended up as a, through a strange twist of events, my business partner in the gear company, Gossamer Gear. Um, and he likes to do hikes. And so I'd be hiking with him every year and he'd say, I had to write a book. And probably about. Started about 10 years ago and I kept saying, I didn't think I needed to. He offered to write the forward and I finally figured, well, I probably should take advantage of that offer. So I finally wrote a book and that's kind of how we ended up to where we are.

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah. I love when you can learn leadership lessons from somewhere that seems like it may not be wholly related to leadership. And there, there are so many nuggets in the book and lessons that I know our audience is really going to benefit from. And so I'm glad that you did take his advice and, and write that book. And really looking forward to digging in today.

Glen Van Peski:

Well, great. Yeah, it's, I was know, I think, I mean, leadership is life and you can, you know, you need to start by leading yourself and you can lead wherever you are in life or in an organization. You don't need to wait for someone to call you a leader or get leader in your job title or your LinkedIn profile. Yeah,

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely what we believe at strong leaders serve. I think I might've mentioned in our earlier conversation that our definition of leadership is courageously using your talents to make a way for others to courageously use theirs. And so definitely. That does not require a title. And I think it, you know, applies to what we're talking about today too. And when you're talking about making a way, you know, and, and we'll dig into that a little bit cause you can make a way on the trail as well.

Glen Van Peski:

yeah, no, there's so many, so many applications I think that, that crossover from backpacking into a life and leadership.

Teri Schmidt:

And I just have to say, gain your base weight under five pounds. You're not talking about going out just for a day trip and carrying that. You're, you're talking about longer, trips. So that is, that's That is truly impressive.

Glen Van Peski:

Yeah, I typically, you know, most of my trips tend to be smaller. I've done some longer ones, but you know, if I'm. Heading out into the mountains for four days. My pack with food and water leaving the trailhead might be 12 pounds, 13 pounds total.

Teri Schmidt:

That is, that is very impressive. And I hope to get there someday as well, but let's get into some of the leadership lessons you know, in our prior conversation, you mentioned that when you take less on the trails, you have to do your research. And you have to rely more on your skills, experience, and ability to improvise in the wilderness when unanticipated conditions arise. So I'm curious, how do you think that taking less builds a leader's confidence and also enhances their ability to be more adaptable, which is something we definitely need in our current times?

Glen Van Peski:

Well, I think backpacking is, tends to be deliberately putting yourself into an environment where you don't control all the variables. Um, but now, you know, I think, Baking sourdough bread is probably the same kind of thing. I'm convinced I, I'm not even aware of all the variables for that in that case. But you know, it's important. That's how you build confidence. If you only do the things that you're really, really good at and you have down pat one, you never grow, you never pick up additional skills. But also when you find yourself in a situation that you're not familiar with, which, you know, if you're a leader. That's going to happen. You're going to, someone's going to say, Hey, can you take over this project? Or what do you know about cybersecurity? Or, Hey, you should start a podcast or whatever, you know, whatever the situation is, or you should write a book. Um, and. You know, in backpacking, you, you obviously try and plan, you know, I'm, I'm a planner. I'm an engineer. That's the way I'm wired. So definitely I will know when sunup and sundown is, I will know. You know, to the best I can, where water sources are I will know what the expected weather and temperature range is so that I, for me, probably don't pack too much that I'm, you know, safe and, and have what I need to, to have a, a good time out there. But that being said, these things change. I mean, you can't control everything. Um, someone slips and sprains an ankle. You can't really plan for that. Um, and so. Um, I think when you put yourself in the wilderness with minimal gear, you know, carefully selected, but still minimal gear, you're relying on your skills basically, and your ability to, to use what you have to solve problems that come up. And so I think that's applicable to leadership in that you know, it's not gear so much in leadership, but it's skills. And so being in certain situations can help you deal with new situations. Even though they're different, you can look back and go, well, you know, I'd never started a podcast before either, and that worked out okay. So whatever this new situation challenge is, I'll be able to figure it out. And that gives you the, the confidence with humility that will. You know, allay the, the worries of the people that that you're leading.

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That confidence through, like you talked about, putting yourself in those uncomfortable situations even when they aren't necessarily thrust upon you, but choosing to go beyond where you're comfortable the confidence that can come from that, it sounds like in your experience has enabled you to deal with. More and more uncomfortable situations or more and more changes that your environment might throw at you.

Glen Van Peski:

Well, it's also a great example to set, you know, if you're leading people and you want them to grow in their capabilities and what they can do, you know, if you're not growing in yours, well, what kind of message does that send? You know, you should be willing to put yourself out there and risk, you know, embarrassment and maybe not doing as well as someone else could have in order to grow, to set an example for. The people on your team. so encourage them to do the same. Yeah.

Teri Schmidt:

And I, I wonder if you have an example, maybe both from a backpacking trip and a parallel example in your leadership, whether it's your own civil engineering company, or when you were working for someone else where not having everything, so the taking less having to be strategic about what you chose helped you to adapt to a new situation or a surprise.

Glen Van Peski:

So in terms of backpacking I've been in a number of situations. I remember one trip in Sesame wilderness and the hills above wilderness above Santa Barbara, California. And it was, it must've been, had to be shoulder season. Cause it was nippy. I mean, it was cold. We. Had our campsite and then there was a little creek running you know, 50 feet off. And so I took my little pot, it was dinnertime, took my little pot to get water out of the creek to boil for dinner. So I got the water and by the time I walked back to camp, the water had congealed. It was like a slushy. So the water was so cold that it was only because it was running that it was not ice. And once you stopped it from running, it started to turn to ice. So it was cold. And I had packed minimally. So I forget which sleeping bag I had. I have a number, which my wife always reminds me if I talk about how many sewing machines she has. And so, you know, we bedded down for the night. And I. Was wearing everything I brought, which is generally kind of how I plan it, um, and woke up during the night shivering shivered for 10 or 15 minutes and then drifted back to sleep for another hour or two and then woke up shivering again. And it wasn't a great night. I mean, I don't plan to do that, but you know, now if I wake up shivering, it's like, I know that's my body's response, you know, to fire muscles off to generate heat. And so as long as I've had a good dinner and I have the fuel to generate the heat that it'll work out. Um, so obviously I don't plan to be shivering all

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

But if it happens, like, okay, I'm not going to die. This is, this is, I didn't plan as well as I, as I should have. Um, and I'll survive it. It'll be fine.

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah. Mm

Glen Van Peski:

I think in terms of, of like an office leadership related one, I guess like a couple come to mind. One is I, I had when I worked at the city of Carlsbad, had someone that worked at the front counter. And I think at this point, maybe I was city engineer or maybe I was community development director by this point and now probably city engineer. And so we had engineering technicians that worked front counter and they had no like credentials in terms of college degrees or engineering, but they knew more than anybody. I mean, they. If you had a question on the code, they were the ones to talk to because they were in it day in, day out. They often didn't get respect from engineers at the front counter cause they had the degree and dot, dot, dot. I had this one lady who would, would come back and say, Hey, there's someone at the counter, you know, they want to do this and, And she, she knew she'd go, Hey, um, she, she would, she would already have like the code sections and things like that. And she'd explain the code sections and this and that, and the situation. And I'd ask her, well, if I hadn't been here, what would you have told them? And she'd say, well, because of ABC, I'd tell him, you know, D E F. Um, I said, that's a great answer. Um, go back and tell him that. And. You know, after, I don't know, you know, as the months went by, she came back less and less and finally just stopped coming back because she realized. She had the knowledge and the expertise, you know, she didn't think she had enough, um, but she realized that she did, that she could answer the questions. And so after that, the only time I got called out was when you had some nasty engineer at the front counter who was demanding to see the city engineer.

Teri Schmidt:

hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

I would go out and, you know, introduce myself and he'd say, well, you know, this tech is telling me blah, blah, blah. And I'd go, well, she's right. You know. Well, I don't want to have to do that. Well, I'm sorry. You know, that's, that's, that's the way it rolls. And, you know, that was, they knew the answers. They just needed that confidence and experience to know that they had the answer with what they had available. Are

Teri Schmidt:

I think that's an excellent example of leadership demonstrating confidence that supports someone almost like scaffolds them in an experience of having an uncomfortable situation. So that was outside of her comfort zone. But it, it was. Because you were able to support her in doing that, that changed how she acted from then on. Speaking of taking less, one of the things you said in your book was that people sometimes pack their fears. And I, I love that phrase and, and just thinking about it, but I'm curious what parallels you see between backpackers and leaders in terms of packing their fears? What does that look like in both situations? Mm-Hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

So for backpacking, like the earlier instance where I shivered all night, would, if I was packing my fears, then I would carry on the next trip because I remembered shivering all night, I would pack a much heavier down bag or heavier down bag and a down jacket. You know, I, I would overcompensate. I would look at the, I would look at the, the forecast and then go, yeah, but it was really cold last time. And. Take more weight than I needed. and I think in leadership, a lot of times that can be overcompensating by avoiding future things. So, you know, if, if I signed up to join some leadership group and it was boring or I got called on and was embarrassed, I might, Want to not do that at the next opportunity because like, well, the last one didn't work out. So I think I'll pass on this one. I'm good. Or, you know, you have, you get called on to give a presentation and it doesn't go well. So then you say, okay, well, I'm not going to do that again. I'm going to avoid ever giving a presentation again. So you, you place the limitations and avoid things based on past experience rather than. Okay. Well, that was great feedback that this is an area that I can improve in. It's a, you know, it's a great, it's a great opportunity. so that would be. I think a more appropriate response for a leader is like, wow, that really sucked. So clearly that's something I needed to vote some, some energy to and talk to people and how do I get better at this and things like that.

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah, that's interesting. The it, it almost sounds like, you know, you have a negative experience in, in one way or another. And then you, you know, one overgeneralize that experience or, you know, make that experience Speak for any future experience that in any way could be related. And like you said, overcompensate by in backpacking, bringing more gear that perhaps you don't need. Just because you had that one experience, but in leadership, that's interesting how it takes the form of avoiding any experience that looks something like that experience, instead of taking a career path. You know rational critical look at the experience and like you said thinking, okay. Yeah, that didn't feel good But what can I learn from it? What do I need to improve so that I am equipped and don't have to avoid those future experiences

Glen Van Peski:

Yeah. I mean, it's feedback and, and feedback is so hard to get when you're a leader. I think honest feedback, cause everyone has their own agendas that they're trying to do and you know, if they work for you, they're telling you you're great or whatever, cause. You know, they want to make you feel good. And it's so hard to get honest feedback. And I sometimes I had leaders under me come and talk about very painful, something that happened that someone, I go, wow, that is, that is a gift. I hope you told them thanks for the gift because as hard as it was for you to hear it, I guarantee it was harder for them to deliver it. You know, to their boss saying, Hey, I'm unhappy about this, that, or the other. Assuming they're not just whining, but you know, I, this is what I observed and this is how it made me feel, or this is how I interpreted that, you know, in the higher you up, get up in an organization, the harder it is to get honest, real feedback. Um, and so I just, you know, I see having something bomb. Well, that's feedback and it's, it's feedback you can use.

Teri Schmidt:

Another thing about the, the take more, do less philosophy that I just loved and I think is extremely relevant for leadership and is definitely aligned with our mission at Strong Leaders Serve is the element of community. So kind of looking at it from both sides, you, you mentioned that one of the outcomes of taking less is that it naturally Builds community because you almost have to rely on the other people that are with you. And you mentioned also, I love this quote. So I'm just going to quote it back to you if that's okay. You said an amazing thing happens when I admit, I don't know. Suddenly I find people who genuinely genuinely want to help me get smarter. This is the opposite of what my ego would like to do to pretend I'm an expert and look down on others. So I'm, I'm curious how. So you think that applies to leadership and also, you know, I know you had some incredible trips with incredible people some, some that many in our audience would know. And I'd love to hear, you know, stories about the taking less and building community on those trips.

Glen Van Peski:

Sure. I mean, a lot of times when I'm backpacking or maybe not a lot of times, but sometimes it's solo and, you know, I definitely pack a little differently if it's a solo trip, maybe off trail, things like that, because you just don't have the margin that you do with other people. And so I, you know, I might throw in three ounces of a Garmin inReach in case of emergencies, you know, I might. Not take the absolute lightest sleeping bag. If I'm going to be completed by myself off trail. I might take a, you know, a 10 ounce tent instead of a three ounce tent. Um, just to have a little more protection. So I definitely take. The community into account and on a longer trip it was hiking once with Dan Buettner of Blue Zones fame. And he was, he was, he holds Guinness world records for cycling around Africa and some other stuff, I think. But, you know, probably known to most people through the blue, his work on Blue Zones

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

the Netflix thing. But we were on some hike, one of John Mackey's hikes. And, and he's telling me. You know, Glenn, here's the secret to putting an expedition together, you know, and, and I'm not going to get it exactly right, but I was like, you have to have someone with like medical experience, you know, if you're in the middle of Africa, it's like, you're not going to get. There's no hospitals or anything. You need to have someone that knows the basics. They know what to carry in their kit, what not to worry about, what to worry about. And he says, you need to have like a repair person. I think he had like some, some Russian guy in his trip or something. He goes, that guy could fix anything with anything. that's like, you know, he says, you need to have someone like that. Um, And then I forget what some of the other ones were. But he, he kind of had his like four, four basics that you need covered in a trip.

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

you know, anything that came up, you'd have someone who had the skillset to interpret and improvise and figure it out. You know, I think in terms of backpack, I remember one trip I was hiking on the Pacific Crest Trail with my buddy Reed, which I did a lot of in the early years. And. One of the heavier things when you get down to five pound base pack weight is food. And it's hard to, you know, you need the calories, it's hard to cheat on the food. And so I always, I know how much food in terms of pounds per day I need. And so I do the math and then pack that much food. Well, somehow I had not done the math correctly on this trip and we're hiking down off of San Jacinto down to snow Creek to cross the I 10 there. And I suddenly I'm looking at my food bag and I realized, Oh, I don't, I don't have nearly enough food. He was like, clearly I did not do the math. Right. And so I, I tell us to reason like, ah, you know, I, I didn't bring enough food. And so we sat down and we. Each put all the food that we had out and then just divvied it up You know, so that we, you know, we would each go a little hungry, but we could finish the trip. Now if I'd been by myself, you know, that's a different story. Um, and then, you know, we're hiking in Buckskin Gulch one year with Francie, which is strange cause she's not a big backpacker.

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

she was there cause a friend of hers was there. Um,

Teri Schmidt:

Mm

Glen Van Peski:

and her arthritis, you know, bad arthritis in her back. And I started kind of limping along. And so because I was so light and because she's married to me, she was very light. I was able to carry both our packs and still was probably carrying less than most of the people we saw in the canyon. Uh, so when you go light you have that that margin,

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

to to help others and I think you know that that margin that margin is created You know, it's not so much a weight margin in, in the leadership situation, uh, in an office or work situation. It's more a margin of energy and attention.

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm. Mm.

Glen Van Peski:

there to not so caught up in your own kind of widening your focus. So you can see what's going on. And hey, Joe seems a little quiet this week. You know, let me just go into his office, close the door and ask him what's going on and find out that his wife's going in for surgery and, you know, he could use some time off or something, but was afraid to ask or whatever the case may be. But if you don't notice You can't take action. You know, that's a, that's a missed missed opportunity. And as a leader, you know, it's, it's tempting to want to know everything. I mean, people are looking to you oftentimes to have the answers. And it's hard to say, and you get paid to have answers to some extent.

Teri Schmidt:

mm hmm, mm hmm,

Glen Van Peski:

I don't know, you know,

Teri Schmidt:

hmm,

Glen Van Peski:

let's figure it out. But I find when you're, you know, when you're honest about your shortcomings. And there's a balance there with everything, but You know, there have been times I remember when I was at the city of Carlsbad and we had actually had the big boss come into my office and I was a director at this point and he said, you know, Glenn, you got a morale issue in your department and you can fix it or I can find someone else to fix it. so we were doing some leadership development, leadership team development work already. In the department. And we had an off site session working through some leadership things. And you know, I was asking our consultant, like, well, when should I bring this up? She's like, ah, you all know the right time. So, you know, I mentioned at a time. So these are all, you know department heads

Teri Schmidt:

mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

And I mentioned that, you know, I had been visited and given an edict, like we, we need to fix it. Or there was going to be someone else at the meetings, you know, and I told them I wasn't doing it for sympathy. Cause I could find another job. That's not a big deal. I'm not worried about that. But sharing that really, and, you know, seeing the vulnerability really pulled the team together. and was helpful in creating like a cohesive vision for the entire department instead of the individual division. So

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. It's not easy and sometimes can be painful, but it's amazing what that bit of vulnerability, you know, well placed will do.

Glen Van Peski:

yeah,

Teri Schmidt:

You talked about the the leader who is able to be more present to, you know, see that one of their employees is perhaps a little quieter and it's because of some family issues. What is it that that leader is taking less of that enables them to be more present and, and serve their team in that way?

Glen Van Peski:

I think sometimes it's, it's taking less, taking less meetings, which you can't always

Teri Schmidt:

Mm. Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

but taking less focus, I guess, on yourself and your to do list, uh, and realizing that You know, the health of your team, everything that you are going to get done or are not going to get done is going to be done by other people, typically when you're a leader, you know, no matter how smart you are and how many hours you've worked and believe me, I've tried, you know, anything significant you're going to accomplish is going to be by others. And so the health of those people. Becomes intrinsically linked to your health on the job, you know, if they're, if they're not having a good time and can't get done what needs to get done, well, you know, you're going to have the boss walking into your office saying, Hey, we got a problem here.

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah. and it's, so to kind of wrap up that part of the discussion, it sounds like that taking less has a lot to do with prioritization and really taking a hard look at, now that I'm a leader, you know, what do I need to prioritize? Is it, um. Like making sure that I'm at every meeting making sure that I get all my to do list tasks done, or is it the health of the team and, and where does that balance lie? And how can I not, like you said, pack your fears you know, how is my prioritization based on just my fears of what will happen to me? Or is it based on the benefit of all around me?

Glen Van Peski:

Yeah, I think it's somewhat, it's like when you have your first child, you realize, oh, it's not about me

Teri Schmidt:

hmm. Right.

Glen Van Peski:

You're number three at that point. And I think the same, you know, when you're a leader, it's not about you anymore and your focus not needs to be not on your career and, and what you're trying to do. It's your focus is on your team.

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which gets to, you talk a lot about relationships in your book and you talk about, you know, some of the trips that you organize you know, even with people that you don't know to, and in fact, build those relationships. I wonder if you might speak to the experiences that you've had both on and off the trail with intentionally building relationships. Hmm. Hmm. Mm

Glen Van Peski:

Yeah. And actually I just, just this morning before the podcast, I was reading today's wall street journal. There was an article on. And they mention and I'm not going to remember the name, some high up leadership guy who works at this and he talks about the, the over 500 personal handwritten notes that he's written. And he's talking my language because I'm a huge fan of the handwritten note. And it was interesting how he said. You know, he's used him at work, you know, someone gets a promotion, does a good job on a, on a, it's one thing to send an email and go, Hey, you did great on that presentation. But to me, just a handwritten note. And he says he addresses them himself. Cause it's like there's power in your handwriting. Like you took the time, the energy to physically put your thoughts down on paper and

Teri Schmidt:

Mm-Hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

got to the person. And so, It was mentioned in this Wall Street Journal article as, you know, a great way to build those relationships because people remember those. Um, and so, yeah, I've used handwritten notes. Extensively in my career when I had my own engineering company, we had little postcards printed with our kind of company logo on the on the front side and then the backside was typical postcards. You could jot off a few thoughts. And people knew like if I walked around the office, I expected to see a stack of those cards on their desk.

Teri Schmidt:

Mm-Hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

as I would tell them, you know, when you hang up the phone and you're, you know, calling the city, trying to follow up on a set of plans they could tell you there's no news yet and hang up when they say, Hey, hang on a sec. Let me wander in the back and talk to the guy who's working on that. That's extra.

Teri Schmidt:

Mm-Hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

And they didn't have to do that.

Teri Schmidt:

Mm-Hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

And so when they do that, that's when you pull a postcard out and say, Hey, really appreciate you taking the extra time to figure out where our plans were. Um, and I was at one time I was visiting the city for something or other. And one of the plan checkers came out when the engineers came out and had something, he said, well, let's, let's go to my desk and, you know, review something. So we go like, this is not where the public goes, you know, this is

Teri Schmidt:

Mm-Hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

through the corridors and end up at his desk. And we're looking at the plans. I look up on the wall against his desk and there are postcards pinned there with my company logo on them. He had kept every postcard he'd gotten. Um, And people, people keep those things. I, With the, you know, with the backpacking company, we'd go to outdoor retailer and I would follow up with notes. And we happened to be visiting Bellingham one time and a supplier that we had at the time had been there and said, Hey, you guys ran and thought we'd stop and say, hi, you know, I've never seen your office. Same thing, he took me back to his office. My note cards, which, you know, had pictures from my hikes on them and were pinned like from 10 years ago, were pinned above his desk. Um, so yeah, you can't, I mean, in building relationships, I think the handwritten note is like the secret sauce. I probably should write an entire book on the handwritten note.

Teri Schmidt:

There you go.

Glen Van Peski:

It's such an overlooked, powerful thing,

Teri Schmidt:

Mm-Hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

the reporter actually for this Wall Street Journal article recalled being surprised after he, you know, met someone at some kind of press thing or something that he got a note from like a month later saying, Hey, I remember you mentioned you were going to have know, a child, your first child or something how's that going or something, you know, just remembering something like that and following up, you know, that was, that's gold. Yeah.

Teri Schmidt:

yeah, definitely. I mean, we all want to be seen and, and that note is an indicator that we were seen and that someone cares enough to take the time to show that.

Glen Van Peski:

Yeah. And part of it is like noticing, you know, remembering and then following up and writing the notes. So it's a, you know, it's a multi step thing, but I think that builds. You know, it builds those relationships that you can, you can draw on when you need or that people can draw on you. I mean, I've had people call me well, we had, we had one experience. You never know where they're going to lead. I got a, we sent out a lot of Christmas cards,

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

like 400, probably. Like Christmas cards, like with a stamp,

Teri Schmidt:

Huh.

Glen Van Peski:

a printed out little mini Christmas letter. It's a lot of work. Um, but so I get an email, this is years ago, I get an email from my uncle in South Africa and he said, Hey Glenn you know, for my 70th birthday, we rented a yacht and cruise the Greek Isles and it was so much fun. We're doing it again. And since you've always been so good with writing Christmas letters, we wondered if you and your family wanted to join us. And he said, think it over for a while and let me know. And I'm like, replies like what's to think over. It's like, yeah, a week on a yacht in the Greek Isles. It was awesome. And it was all because we'd been consistent with the Christmas cards. So you just never know.

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah. Yeah. And it ties together what we've been talking about, you know, about community and about you know, both, both the giving and the being served as well and how that creates, creates that bond.

Glen Van Peski:

Yeah. And you never know. It's exciting for me now when I meet someone new to kind of wonder, like the anticipation. Oh, do they have something that I need, or are they going to tell me something that I need to hear? Or do they have a need that I'm going to be in a unique position to fix? And sometimes, Sometimes it's not what I initially think I had an experience a couple of years ago, putting together the website. And so I need some good photographs. And so, you know, I talked to a guy in town here that seems to know everybody he's I talked to so and so. So I called him, we met for coffee and he goes. Yeah, it's not really my thing, but talk to this other guy. He does that kind of stuff.

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

and then he shared, kind of overshared that this guy just got terminal diagnosis. So don't wait too long to call him basically.

Teri Schmidt:

hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

So in the meantime, so I made an appointment for coffee with the second photographer guy. And in the meantime, I remembered a thru hiker who I knew was also a photographer and it's like, Oh my gosh, I should, you know, she can just do this.

Teri Schmidt:

hmm. Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

I kind of owe her, cause I'm using like a snapshot she took 20 years ago for the last 10 years. so I thought, well, but I'll still go have coffee with the other second photographer. So anyway, we have coffee and we're talking about his diagnosis and kind of his bucket list. And he quit work to enjoy what little time he had left and had a bucket list item of wanting to go to Patagonia. And so I was like, well, because we've been intentional about creating margin in terms of finances. We can make that happen. We can write a check. Um, and so, you know, I initially met him thinking he was going to Help me with something, but it turned out that I was there to help him with something. So even, and you know, even the most menial things like my dishwashing job that I do part time at

Teri Schmidt:

Huh,

Glen Van Peski:

bakery, you know, I just, I felt like that part time job had my name on it and then the pandemic hit and it definitely scratched a need. You know, one thing about retirement that people don't take into account is the things that they like about their jobs, because those are going to go away to, um, you know, than the paycheck usually, um, but being part of a team and you know, working towards common goal and the, the adrenaline rush of deadlines and stuff. And so that scratched my need for that, but then the pandemic came. And, you know, obviously affected the bakery significantly, and they did their best to kind of figure out what people's minimum they needed. And I obviously, you know, didn't need any, so I wasn't watching disses for a long time, but I told the owners like, Hey, if there's, if there's some way I can help, let me know.

Teri Schmidt:

mhm,

Glen Van Peski:

and you know, I got a call and they, some months later said, well, things are kind of stable and pretty much working. But there's one person that. You know, is supporting a multiple family members on this job. And we don't quite have enough hours. You know, if you could kind of cover half their salary for the next month or two, that would be great. And so I can write a check to do that. So, you know, I'm there, I'm washing dishes for 16 bucks an hour or whatever it is. Um, but I'm also able to flip that around and have an impact to the company. So,

Teri Schmidt:

That's a, that's a beautiful thing. And I think flows perfectly into the last question that we ask most of our guests and that is, what does strong leaders serve mean to you?

Glen Van Peski:

well, I think, you know, leaders serve. And so if you're a strong leader. You're definitely serving because if you're not serving, you're not a strong leader. I mean, in my mind, you know, leadership is about service. Kind of like we said, when you have your first child, you realize it's not about you. Um, and I think that's the way it is with, with leadership. It's not about you. It's you're there for a reason, um, you know, to, to build up others and, and help them move forward. And if you do that well, then. You know, you'll get other opportunities and you'll get calls forward, but yeah, you're called to serve your customers, to your team to your bosses. And I think, you know, strong leaders have figured this out and you know, are devoted to serving.

Teri Schmidt:

Thank you for that. And thank you for your time today. If people, I definitely will link the book and include your website in the show notes, but is there anywhere else that you would like to direct people if they're interested in connecting with you or? Have questions specifically for you.

Glen Van Peski:

Well, the website's the best way glennvanpesky. com. I also post periodically on, on LinkedIn and Instagram are kind of my main social

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

and people can always just email me Glenn at Glenn Van Pesky dot com. People seem to be surprised when I answer, I don't know. I'm lucky to not be that popular that I don't get that many emails. So

Teri Schmidt:

Oh Well, that's great, that's great. Well, thank you for being so open thank you for writing this book and and following John's advice on that and Look forward to that next book on the power of handwritten notes.

Glen Van Peski:

that could be a short one. Yeah. But I think, you know, it probably needs to be, everyone should do that. I think we could change the world. I mean, it really changes things. You talk about the, you know, you look at the problems facing us and loneliness and depression, and we send a lot of postcards too when we're out of town, you know,

Teri Schmidt:

Mm hmm.

Glen Van Peski:

plenty of people that, you know, not just kids. Cause kids love to get who gets like postcards anymore. And it's just. It's magical. But even grownups, you know, people that, you know, they don't have a lot of going on in their lives or kind of towards the end of lives and, you know, it's kind of a blast of something fresh and something different. And Francie's a master of that. My wife, she, she maintains relationships even if she never hears back from the other person. I mean, she devotes huge amounts of time and energy to that, so, and the world is a better place for it.

Teri Schmidt:

Yeah, that's definitely powerful. I 100 percent agree. Glenn. I really appreciate your time and sharing your wisdom and experience with all of us.

Glen Van Peski:

My pleasure.

Teri Schmidt:

Isn't it interesting how taking less actually builds community and allows us to do more as strong leaders who serve? Be sure to check out Glenn's book for more stories about his adventures and the additional lessons he learned. And until next time, lead with this reminder from Glenn in mind, don't pack your fears.